two questions about memory cards

[bobbydj]

Two questions RE memory cards:

What brand and size do you use (I'd be most interested to hear from Model 12 owners, as that's what I have)? My first and only card so far has been a SanDisk 128GB one billed as "SanDisk 128GB Extreme PRO SDXC card, SD Card, V30 Memory Card, 4K UHD, up to 200 MB/s, SanDisk QuickFlow Technology, RescuePro Deluxe Data Recovery Software, UHS-I, Class 10, U3, V30" on Amazon).

What happens when you get to a hundred songs? This latter question I can answer: You cannot record any more songs, and the Model 12 (and presumably the 16 and 24) function of pressing Menu, Song and New brings up a small box saying something to the effect that no new song can be created. This came as a bit of a shock this morning!! Luckily, I remembered there were at least two songs in my long list that had no data, were totally blank and unused - so I just deleted them and got cracking on a new song.

However, it did make me wonder. I have a horrible feeling I'll encounter a potentially difficult problem. When it comes time to mix my 8 tracks down to a stereo pair, will the Model 12 try to create a new song - and then find there are none available because of the 100 song limit?

Secondly - as I go back and begin to add more tracks to my existing 100 songs (e.g. vocals - or "details" such as keyboard parts etc.), will I run out of space on the card? It's difficult to understand how the 128GB cards work. On the one hand, a limit of 100 songs. On the other, supposing I only recorded 50 songs, but each one was very long, and all eight tracks were used up. It's hard to know what the relationship between number of songs, and amount of data used by each song is.

Thanks guys.

 

[Mark Richards]

brand and size do you use

Go to the TASCAM website support page for your unit and you'll find a list of the TASCAM tested/approved SD cards - see page 18 of your Owner Manual (OM). Also pay attention to the note on that page about formatting SD cards. Stray from those at considerable risk somewhere down the line.

It's hard to know what the relationship between number of songs, and amount of data used by each song is.

Generally: Limit your song count to about 80% of the SD card capacity based on awareness of each of the following three measurements:
* the ratio of songs to the SD card's total song capacity;
* the ratio of song time length to the SD card's available/remaining hh:mm:ss;
* the ratio of average song folder size to the SD card's maximum capacity/remaining.

The several sections found on OM pages 26, 28, 35, and 60 should prove informative in figuring things out for each unique song.

With a general appreciation of the above ratios developed from information found in the above referenced OM pages, you should be able to estimate when it's time to introduce your Model 12 to a new mate. Using track sheets to plan each of your songs in advance of recording will also help a lot.

 

[bobbydj]

Go to the TASCAM website support page for your unit and you'll find a list of the TASCAM tested/approved SD cards - see page 18 of your Owner Manual (OM). Also pay attention to the note on that page about formatting SD cards. Stray from those at considerable risk somewhere down the line.

Already done this, bud. Hence my question - what size and brand of cards do you and other users use (as opposed to what should I use?

Thanks for the prompt to look at the OM. I found this sentence: This recorder treats each recording data group as one song and manages data by song. For one song, WAV files are saved for 10 tracks and a stereo master file.

So, when I asked the question "When it comes time to mix my 8 tracks down to a stereo pair, will the Model 12 try to create a new song - and then find there are none available because of the 100 song limit?" the answer seems to be "no." Because the way the file system operates is to automatically reserve a two additional tracks - i.e. a stereo pair - whenever a new song is created. That could and should be positive news for me.

Using track sheets to plan each of your songs in advance of recording will also help a lot.

Sure. Mostly my tracks are woefully formulaic and follow a tracking process when we were still on 2" tape, mixing down to 1/4": Drums on 1-6 -> bass on 7 -> guitars on 8, 9, 10 -> vocals on 11 and 12 -> b-vox on 13 -> tambourine on the choruses on 14 -> indulgent crap on any remaining tracks if there's time (gospel choirs, string sections, exotic percussion, novelty voice samples, etc. ad nauseam).

However, I also use the M12 to write with. And that's the most fun of all. Go into it "flying on instruments". Winging it. Busking it. Improvising every step of the way. E.g. let's record 3:30 of a drum track....then add a layer of improvised ambient guitar, then put a simple bass line on track four. Ime, this is when the best ideas and songs happen. Or maybe it just feels like that. In any case, it's so much more fun than being mind-numbingly methodical - which is the kiss of death to spontaneity and the most enjoyable kind of creativity. At any rate, it's usually a case of vocals on track five, at some unspecified time in the future.....and thusly, an M12 user can quickly find themselves with a stack of ideas nudging three figures!

 

[Phil Tipping]

If the Model 12 is anything like the DP-24/32 machines, the song limit is a separate issue to the amount of space occupied by the song on the card or the number of tracks per song.
I don't have a Model 12, but the DP machines use the concept of a 'song' which contains all tracks and mixes for each song, whether they are recorded live or edited or added to later.

When you add more recordings to a song, they are added to that same song; they do not 'create' a new song. Same applies to editing tracks and doing bounces and mixdowns.

My guess is that the designers have just allocated 2 digits for the song number, so that gives a max of 100 songs (00 to 99). This is a bit confusing as the example song names are suffixed by "_0001" implying there are 4 digits.

Have just checked the manual (rev F) and page 35 (Managing Songs) does in fact say "A maximum of 100 songs can be created on the SD card", but also says the "Max recording time for a single song is 23:59:59"
This implies you could have 100 songs all containing a single track recording of a few secs of audio, and this would be nowhere near the card capacity.
Conversely you could have just a couple of songs with lots of long recorded tracks which could reach this time limit.

I would just accept the 100 song limit as a 'feature' and work with it, although I personally would be wary of keeping anywhere near that number of songs on a card... all yours eggs in one basket, as they say
As Mark says the actual space occupied on the card depends on how long each track is, and you can calculate that yourself from the bit-depth and sampling frequency tables.

 

[Max Relic]

For my Model 12 projects I use a SanDisk Extreme Pro 64 GB, part code SDSDXXY-064G-GN4IN: it's in the TASCAM tested media list, though the same cards can be found with small code variations in different market areas so take it with a pinch of salt.
You will find a discussion on the topic elsewhere in the forum and useful information in the stickies.

For each new song the Model 12 creates a folder in the MTR directory containing 12 empty mono wave files for the tracks, a song file with .bin extension, plus 12 temporary track files and undo files when actual recording/overdub is started.

Furthermore, a stereo wave file is created in the MUSIC directory when exporting the main mix (tracks 11/12) with the apposite menu function.

Since it's virtually impossible to predict how much space you'll need for your future projects, unless you plan to base your songs on the very same time/structure template, my advice is to keep an eye on SD space consumption as things evolve and switch to a new SD in time.

You can roughly calculate how much space a song will need based on the choosen sample rate and resolution, just remember to take in account the invisible files the Model 12 stores undercover to do its job.